tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post8275020812364638874..comments2024-03-15T07:44:55.087+00:00Comments on The Cycling Lawyer: Cycle Superhighway 9. My observations.Martin Porterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-17341799475277215482013-01-30T15:15:59.100+00:002013-01-30T15:15:59.100+00:00Thank you. That is interesting. The response tho...Thank you. That is interesting. The response though to my letter is at http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/cycle-super-highway-9-response.html<br />I did not feel that my points were striking home.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-40443441012445253962013-01-29T20:45:44.008+00:002013-01-29T20:45:44.008+00:00I wouldn't be too negative about Hounslow Tran...I wouldn't be too negative about Hounslow Transport, some of their staff have been to Copenhagen specifically to look at cycling infrastructure:<br />http://media.urbed.coop.ccc.cdn.faelix.net/sites/default/files/Report%20of%20Copenhagen%20Study%20Tour.pdf<br />Perhaps the challenge is to enthuse councillors to act on this knowledge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-34781024320819416602013-01-29T06:41:19.517+00:002013-01-29T06:41:19.517+00:00You have presented good points! Hopefully, those w...You have presented good points! Hopefully, those will be considered by the Hounslow's highway officers soon. Anyway, your proposal is aimed for the total safety of cyclists in the area.Cycling Products Supplierhttp://www.endurancechiro.com/quality-components-enhance-performance/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-16047552134002654112012-11-29T11:10:25.599+00:002012-11-29T11:10:25.599+00:00Since a cycle lane as wide as 1.5m is hardly to be...Since a cycle lane as wide as 1.5m is hardly to be found in central London, to my knowledge, with the exception of some bi-directional lanes (!) I think they might feel you were being rather ungrateful in complaining about what would appear to be a substantial improvement on anything offered before. But perhaps that is the point: this is still at the level of the diffacility provided mainly to satisfy the appearance of having provided. But we need to get past providing crap infrastructure for the appearance of providing it, even if it isn't as crap as it used to be. Rather if we provide anything at all it should be properly useful.ivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-84003650971506203772012-11-23T13:44:00.565+00:002012-11-23T13:44:00.565+00:00Richard wrote: "The key issue is the traffic ...Richard wrote: "The key issue is the traffic speed, not the width of the cycle lanes. If you've got traffic speed down to 20mph, then 1.5m would be fine."<br /><br />But as Martin says, riding 1m from the kerb is sensible. The rider's own body then fills the other 50cm, so why bother having a 1.5m lane at all? It doesn't provide a safe refuge for cyclists because if a driver positioned their car at the edge of the lane then they'd brush the cyclist's elbow as they passed. A cycle lane should give space between the cyclist and the kerb, AND space between the cyclist and the car. If it doesn't then what's the point?Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-23247851244661253022012-11-20T11:22:14.672+00:002012-11-20T11:22:14.672+00:00I did not think it one of my better posts and I cu...I did not think it one of my better posts and I cull occasionally.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-56772686565357930502012-11-20T11:20:08.400+00:002012-11-20T11:20:08.400+00:00I agree. I would always leave a cycle lane to ove...I agree. I would always leave a cycle lane to overtake another cyclist. Overtaking using the same lane is not encouraged for cars and should not be encouraged for cyclists. Thanks for putting that right, I have removed my postscript.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-50354558049619611952012-11-20T11:14:21.342+00:002012-11-20T11:14:21.342+00:00You are bang-on about cycle lane width, but I don&...You are bang-on about cycle lane width, but I don't agree with cyclists overtaking cyclists within 2-metre lanes. Even if the overtakee hugs the kerb, the overtaker will be too close to both the cyclist being passed and any motor traffic in the adjacent lane.<br /><br />One commentator mentioned a green wave. I'm convinced this is the single best thing that could be done on a Superhighway: traffic lights set for a green wave at 17mph or so.<br /><br />Most commuter cyclists can sustain this sort of speed, and with proper explanation, it would remove drivers' incentive to overtake cyclists. The explanation would include the point that this is the speed at which a lane of motor traffic has its maximum safe capacity.<br />It's also faster than drivers usually manage to get around London!Colin Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-1911160552056281312012-11-19T11:04:35.378+00:002012-11-19T11:04:35.378+00:00Martin,
Off topic, what happened to the blog re fo...Martin,<br />Off topic, what happened to the blog re footballers . . . that seems to have disappeared?<br />Hope you are well. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-46149222819474076482012-11-18T21:16:05.405+00:002012-11-18T21:16:05.405+00:00I agree that a 1.5m unsegregated and advisory cycl...I agree that a 1.5m unsegregated and advisory cycle lane of whatever colour is next to useless. Even mandatory cycle lanes are next to useless, because drivers park in them, they are positioned to go on the outside of parking bays (thanks Newham and Leytonstone - what are you thinking of?) and it is really difficult to overtake other cyclists without drivers getting annoyed. I always ride on the outer white line of these cycle lanes to avoid gutters and the door zone, and yes drivers get even more annoyed. <br /><br />Thanks for making these points to Hounslow/TfL. I hope that they take them into consideration when planning any future super highways.<br /> <br /><br />k8https://www.blogger.com/profile/11787964945830286262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-29532453131272544242012-11-18T14:20:37.892+00:002012-11-18T14:20:37.892+00:00The key issue is the traffic speed, not the width ...The key issue is the traffic speed, not the width of the cycle lanes. If you've got traffic speed down to 20mph, then 1.5m would be fine.<br /><br />The question is whether their design does enough to moderate speeds. Are traffic lanes narrow (<3m). Are side roads tightened up, and pedestrians provided with raised tables, so that turning traffic disrupts the main road flow? Are there frequent pedestrian crossings (not set in a green wave), so that progress is broken up? Does the character of the road (particularly the height and setback of properties / trees) encourage sensible speed?Richardhttp://www.transportparadise.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-82162499601141261942012-11-18T11:06:15.753+00:002012-11-18T11:06:15.753+00:00I absolutely agree that narrow cycle lanes are wor...I absolutely agree that narrow cycle lanes are worse than useless. It came as something of a surprise, however, when I conducted an informal poll amongst a group of local cyclists, that not all felt the same way. Some felt that a cycle lane of any width was valuable in reminding motorists that cyclists are to be expected. My experience is that the behaviour or many motorists changes for the worse once they perceive that cyclists have been allocated their own lane. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542145160404546281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-75856262935582441382012-11-17T15:44:05.357+00:002012-11-17T15:44:05.357+00:00I pointed out that the scheme was the worst of all...I pointed out that the scheme was the worst of all worlds avoiding both proper segregation and integration. My first concern is that they do not make matters worse than they already are. I am happy for others to urge dutch style infrastructure but if it is not happening in Central London it is hardly going to start on the A315 through LB Hounslow.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-46739503386948303042012-11-17T14:56:33.414+00:002012-11-17T14:56:33.414+00:00Martin,
I agree wholeheartedly with the limitatio...Martin,<br /><br />I agree wholeheartedly with the limitations you have pointed out in the proposed designs for CS9, but I am utterly baffled by the alternatives you propose. like myself, you are a confident, committed cyclist with a lot of experience on the road. The measures you suggest here would make the experience of cycling in this location slightly more pleasant for suitably confient, fast and experienced cyclists, but despite your stated commitment to improving the safety and popularity of cycling, this would not make this section of road, any more accessible to normal people who wish to use bicycles. Neither the measures proposed for CS9 or you counter-proposal would be enough to get someone like my mum on a bike. <br /><br />It seems like your letter was a bit of missed opportunity if all it is asking for is measures to make the route a little bit nicer for cyclists like you and I. After all, we already cycle, and would probably continue to cycle regardless of what local authorities and the highways agency put us through. People like us simply aren't the growth area for cycling, almost everyone who would ever be willing to cycle on our hellish roads already does, there's no growth left in our demographic. If you are committed to the growth of cycling (and the safety of cyclists) do you not feel that this would have been a good opportunity to propose the measures which are necessary to get ordinary folk on bikes; The Netherlands' approach?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-19489148670084943522012-11-16T22:23:25.588+00:002012-11-16T22:23:25.588+00:00These are, as ever, wise comments, Martin. I hope ...These are, as ever, wise comments, Martin. I hope you're recovering from your crash injuries.<br /><br />You would be horrified by the designs of many on-street cycle lanes here in New York, where I moved in August. They are absurdly narrow and often run exclusively in cars' door zone. As you note of the Hounslow designs, if one rides outside them or on the offside edge of them, it winds up the motorists no end - and New Yorkers seldom as a rule need much excuse to get ratty.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.com