tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post1180242720579336649..comments2024-03-15T07:44:55.087+00:00Comments on The Cycling Lawyer: British Cycling calls on the Lord Chancellor to review the role of the Criminal Justice System in protecting vulnerable road usersMartin Porterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-75632736796339764562012-06-13T12:57:53.222+01:002012-06-13T12:57:53.222+01:00Very impressed with you tracking down the Ramshaw ...Very impressed with you tracking down the Ramshaw case on such a vague explanation, and apologies for my faulty memory of the details.ivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-45033652232585639362012-06-12T15:24:44.117+01:002012-06-12T15:24:44.117+01:00I agree, your comment crossed with my next post wh...I agree, your comment crossed with my next post which raises the same points as you do.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-78700950672461818332012-06-12T14:50:57.810+01:002012-06-12T14:50:57.810+01:00Ross Ldyall (who really is doing his fellow-cyclis...Ross Ldyall (who really is doing his fellow-cyclists a great service with his coverage of these cases) has just posted another article about the inquest in this case: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/i-am-sorry-but-i-couldnt-see-him-trucker-tells-dead-cyclists-mother-7843934.html<br /><br />The case seems to me far more blameworthy even than when I first read this post about it. The lorry driver was blocking the advance stop box. From personal experience, it's possible to try to get to an advance stop box, realise too late that it's blocked and get stuck in a bad position. Yet the coroner suggests that it's somehow the advance stop box's fault that the danger was created (rather than blaming the driver who misused it). There's also a comment from the police saying it was a mitigating factor that the driver had a blind spot. Everyone has a blind spot. One's meant to compensate.<br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-61520157870019189262012-06-12T13:54:43.373+01:002012-06-12T13:54:43.373+01:00I find it bizarre that the presence or absence of ...I find it bizarre that the presence or absence of indicators can make or break a case like this. Surely if we take rule 103 of the highway code, "indicating does not give you priority" into account, I can't see how this can be used as justification to drop the case given that it seems there might be other evidence as mentioned above.Elberto Quonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12921010992270980708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-90301524254411369362012-06-12T12:38:23.224+01:002012-06-12T12:38:23.224+01:00Hi Martin. Just discovered your site.
I've be...Hi Martin. Just discovered your site. <br />I've been following this story and trying to work out where the breakdown in process is.<br /><br />I've had a recent experience with the CPS around similar circumstances and understand they will only prosecute if they think they have pretty strong grounds for getting a conviction. Eg, pressing for Careless rather than Dangerous driving despite outcome of the incident. <br /><br />In my reading it appears that a lack of evidence caused the CPS to pull the charges in Dan's case. <br /><br />This speaks to me that the problem is the failure to collect all relevant evidence from the scene, thus leaving the CPS with nothing to support its charges. Or is that just a part of the issue?jameshttp://www.8ballbikes.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-52179122083497432422012-06-12T01:35:51.702+01:002012-06-12T01:35:51.702+01:00Thank you for this article. I apologise for leavi...Thank you for this article. I apologise for leaving an anonymous comment but I'm very upset and it seems the best thing to do right now.<br /><br />I knew Dan and cannot understand why the CPS didn't proceed with the case. I cannot express how devastating it is to lose someone in this way and for there to be no sense of responsibility for the act. Even if the driver of the HGV were acquitted it would feel better to have had the case heard by an independent Judge and Jury. (There are some appalling blame-the-cyclist comments on the Evening Standard article). It just seems decent and just (to a lay person) for the case to be heard. It feels like the system has failed.<br /><br />I thought that the crucial element was that the HGV was missing a legally required mirror on the left hand side? Why isn't this enough to bring the case to court?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-69445506133183555722012-06-11T22:55:49.293+01:002012-06-11T22:55:49.293+01:00Keep up the good work Martin. I always read your b...Keep up the good work Martin. I always read your blog and appreciate the voice of reason, when my blood is boiling when I hear of one more poor unfortunate being crushed to death by an indifferent and careless driver. I would like much more stringent sentences. There is no consolation at all at present for the families of these cyclists.k8https://www.blogger.com/profile/11787964945830286262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-62061010335156714492012-06-11T17:24:11.233+01:002012-06-11T17:24:11.233+01:00Thanks for your comments. I was sufficiently star...Thanks for your comments. I was sufficiently startled by your reference to the Welsh case to seek it out. Craig Ramshaw was acquitted by a jury of dangerous driving. I do not think anybody suggested that he was not guilty of driving without due care.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-81975654757572597862012-06-11T16:59:35.134+01:002012-06-11T16:59:35.134+01:00You wrote this: "It is not therefore sufficie...You wrote this: "It is not therefore sufficient for a left turning lorry driver simply to indicate and lack of an indication is not therefore 'an essential element' in proving an offence." You are therefore interpreting the CPS's "essential element" wording as a general argument, ie, an essential element of any case. But I think it at least possible that they only meant it is essential in relation to the specific case against this driver, not in general. You may be right, but I don't see anything to contradict my way of reading it.<br /><br />The other point is semantic, I admit. But I would only call, in non-lawyerly fashion, someone's driving "careful" and/or "considerate" if it was conspicuously so, not the ordinary or due level necessary to keep you alive (mostly) and out of the slammer (mostly). And judges sometimes seem to have even lower expectations of the words "due care" than me: a driver drives off the road into a ditch, with no external reason for doing so, other than the fact that it was dark and the road narrow and unlit. To me that outcome is in itself evidence of lack of due care, but in a case in Wales a judge didn't think so even though the passengers in the car died. The driver says he simply didn't see the bend.ivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-38671952208275819242012-06-11T15:25:56.537+01:002012-06-11T15:25:56.537+01:00I would have thought my post was clear enough that...I would have thought my post was clear enough that I was criticising the reasons for the decision.<br />One bad decision not to charge cannot justify further bad decisions.<br />I do not know where you get the 'well short' idea from. 'Far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver' gives you dangerous driving; 'below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver' gives you driving without due care; due consideration is not defined but requires that somebody is inconvenienced. As a matter of sensible language you are driving either with or without due care and/or consideration; driving with due care and consideration is synonymous in my usage with being careful and considerate.Martin Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802050121734667593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-33179038250795626822012-06-11T14:07:05.494+01:002012-06-11T14:07:05.494+01:00Plainly the CPS's comments do not make sense a...Plainly the CPS's comments do not make sense as a generality, but apparently they think the particular case they could assemble against that driver was badly holed without that point. It is really hard to judge without knowing what their case was. After all, it can apparently be hard to assemble a good case against someone even with the most damning circumstantial evidence. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_St_Helen,_Treeton<br /><br />But I do think that as a generality, "lack of due care" is a standard that must fall well short of being "careful and considerate".ivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7651597981151570147.post-43442523250005632912012-06-09T15:57:23.826+01:002012-06-09T15:57:23.826+01:00Since when has the " Public Good " been ...Since when has the " Public Good " been subject to the whims of "Chance "?<br /> All legal cases are subject to the way evidence is presented and if Prosecutors are going to duck cases that lowers their " Win " ratio , it is time for them to seek other employment !<br />Maybe working as a cycle courier !skippyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10045948860442711266noreply@blogger.com